bernard said:

"Pedal activated rear brake" " belt transmission"

I thought the 650 was like the 400 for braking, that is to say, using levers on handle bar.

I also thought that the transmission was obtained through gears, like a normal gearbox, unlike the 400 which uses a belt. Am I wrong?

http://www.gizmag.com/go/1909/

I'll quote the relevant section-

"The SECVT system uses a set of variable-diameter pulleys and a new type of belt called the Dry Hybrid Belt, which is built using rubber tension members embedded in H-shaped, high-strength aluminium blocks covered with resin. Lightweight and designed to run dry (instead of an oil bath which increases frictional losses), the belt is the secret to the incredible precision of the Suzuki CVT. A computerized SECVT controller and ECM oversee the SECVT's operation. They calculate the actual CVT ratio by using three sensors: a drive pulley position sensor, which senses the drive pulley diameter from the position of a slide gear; a crank position sensor; and a CVT rev sensor on the driven pulleys. Based on road speed and throttle position, the SECVT controller calculates the target engine rpm and automatically adjusts the CVT ratio by varying the drive pulley diameter."

This SECVT controller is the secret behind the powerful engine braking of the Burgman 650.  Engine braking on a four-stroke is far more powerful in Low Gear than it is in High Gear.  The Drive Pulley ratio selected by this controller when you close off the throttle gets lower and lower, the longer that you keep the throttle closed. If you pick the right place to close your throttle (say, approaching a slow corner), you can slow enough without using the brakes, and just open up to maintain the correct speed through that corner.  I've even towed my trailer through two slow corners close to home, without needing to brake for those corners!

Burgermiser said:

Chet said:

Cutting the gas on a 650 in a slow turn will get you to ground real fast. Do the same on the 400 and it is free wheeling at low RPMs. 

 

The 650 needs a switch for turning on the rear brake light not for stopping.  

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That "Free Wheeling" on the 400, comes in at 15 MPH, and can take you by surprise, at first, as you're expecting it to slow down, even more, but it doesn't. It seems to speed up, if anything.  It's quite unnerving, until you get used to it.  SO BEWARE ! ALL NEW 400 RIDERS.  It would be a good idea, for the seller, to warn the buyer, about it.  Nobody warned me!

Surely, there's more than enough switches, on the 650, already, Chet. You only have to squeeze one of the brake levers, lightly, for the brake light to come on.

Chet said:

Cutting the gas on a 650 in a slow turn will get you to ground real fast. Do the same on the 400 and it is free wheeling at low RPMs. 

 

The 650 needs a switch for turning on the rear brake light not for stopping.  

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That "Free Wheeling" on the 400, comes in at 15 MPH, and can take you by surprise, at first, as you're expecting it to slow down, even more, but it doesn't. It seems to speed up, if anything.  It's quite unnerving, until you get used to it.  SO BEWARE ! ALL NEW 400 RIDERS.  It would be a good idea, for the seller, to warn the buyer, about it.  Nobody warned me!

Surely, there's more than enough switches, on the 650, already, Chet. You only have to squeeze one of the brake levers, lightly, for the brake light to come on.

BurgieKing said:

My 650 is much the same with the engine braking, so much so that it can be quite alarming for following cagers if I don't make a conscious effort to show some brake light when slowing down! Unless I'm doing more than about 40mph I find I don't need to touch the brakes at all.

Burgermiser said: macharlebois said:…….I've never seen " Pedals " on a scooter. But MOPEDS had pedals, and, you back-pedalled, to operate the rear brake.

I think he means the foot brake which Vespas and Lambrettas all had in the 1960s, indeed all bikes had until the "twist and go" took over the market and someone had the bright idea of using the redundant clutch lever as a brake lever instead! GOOD THINKING, BATMAN! That way I can pull my undercarriage up nice and early and tuck it away well forward where it's most comfortable!

macharlebois said:

H

Here in Canada, I was told that Transport Canada did not allow the licensing of scooters that were not equipped with a pedal activated rear brake.  It took Suzuki several years of demonstrations and road tests to have the regulation modified.  It may explain in part why very little was done to market the big scooter up here. 

Are you sure you don't mean " MOPEDS " (motorised bicycles) rather than scooters.

I've never seen " Pedals " on a scooter. But MOPEDS had pedals, and, you back-pedalled, to operate the rear brake.

My 650 is much the same with the engine braking, so much so that it can be quite alarming for following cagers if I don't make a conscious effort to show some brake light when slowing down! Unless I'm doing more than about 40mph I find I don't need to touch the brakes at all.

It's a bit of both, Bernard.

The forward (front) part of the transmission system, is belt driven. (aka 400). That's where you get your "Twist & Go" from. The rear end of it, the final drive, is a SERIES of (cogs) gear wheels. (NOT a normal gearbox)

I think the reason for that set-up is, On the 650, the engine is mounted further forward, in the main chassis, and a fair distance from the rear wheel. The gears, take up that extra space. (Gilera solved that problem, by using a CHAIN final drive, on their GP 800 scooter). Where-as, the 400's engine, is mounted on the rear suspension swinging arm, and is much closer to the rear wheel.

A few people have said that the 400 hasn't got engine braking, like the 650, has. But that is NOT the case, with the 09 model. When the throttle is released, it starts braking straight away. The Handlebar brakes are not required, most of the time.

H

Here in Canada, I was told that Transport Canada did not allow the licensing of scooters that were not equipped with a pedal activated rear brake.  It took Suzuki several years of demonstrations and road tests to have the regulation modified.  It may explain in part why very little was done to market the big scooter up here. 

Personally, I am convinced that the brake arrangement on the Burgman 650 is one of the best in the market.  The only thing I wish my Burg 650 Exec had was a "neutral" position in the gearbox, and maybe even a "reverse" position, but that is another story…

I hope for a very short winter.  Last Spring, I rode the bike for the first ride of the season on March 15.  It was bloody cold but what a feeling after several months of snow and misery.

In my experience in Europe – limited as it is – I saw loots of ads for the 400 but nothing for the 650.

I agree.  Suzuki does a terrible job marketing the Burgman in the USA.  I found out about the Burgmans by websurfing when I was looking for a bigger scooter. I had no idea they built scooters as big as the 400 and 650.

Thanks for posting –Interesting reading.  Now if we could plant the seed of a 750. . .

For almost a happenstance creation, I tend to think they hit the ball out of the park.  I routinely get on busy southern California freeways and think the Burgman bikes are the best commuter bikes imaginable, especially the 650 Exec.

I think the only area Suzuki has fallen down in is in marketing.  My own journey to Burgman happiness resulted from my walking by a parked Majesty, and thinking I could see myself on one of those.  From there the research led to this site.  Back when people had jobs(like last year) there were many young and older potential scoot riders.  Had I seen a decent ad or commercial for a burgman, I suspect I'd have checked it out earlier.

Ride safe

Art H